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- <text id=94TT0570>
- <title>
- May 09, 1994: Interview:Rigorous Case for Morality
- </title>
- <history>
- TIME--The Weekly Newsmagazine--1994
- May 09, 1994 Nelson Mandela
- </history>
- <article>
- <source>Time Magazine</source>
- <hdr>
- INTERVIEW, Page 47
- A Rigorous Case for Morality
- </hdr>
- <body>
- <p> Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew speaks out on caning
- </p>
- <p>By Lee Kuan Yew, James R. Gaines, Joelle Attinger, William Dowell
- and Sandra Burton
- </p>
- <p> Despite pleas for clemency from the White House, Singapore not
- only appears determined to carry out its caning sentence on
- American teenager Michael Fay, but is planning the same punishment
- for another youth. A second American, who was arrested for vandalism
- along with Fay, is still on trial. Singapore's Senior Minister
- and predominant political personality, Lee Kuan Yew, 70, recently
- addressed this and other issues of U.S. policy with managing
- editor James R. Gaines, chief of correspondents Joelle Attinger,
- Southeast Asia bureau chief William Dowell and senior correspondent
- Sandra Burton. Excerpts:
- </p>
- <p> TIME: Is such punishment for Fay necessary?
- </p>
- <p> Lee: Can we govern if we let him off and not cane him? Can we
- then cane any other foreigner or our own people? We'll have
- to close shop. That's my view. I am an old-style Singaporean
- who believes that to govern you must have a certain moral authority.
- If we do not cane him because he is an American, I believe we'll
- lose our moral authority and our right to govern.
- </p>
- <p> TIME: Do you think this will have a lasting effect on relations
- with the U.S.?
- </p>
- <p> Lee: If it has a lasting effect on our relations, then the relations
- are not worth much. I hope you are mature enough to know that
- we are different. I believe Americans are big enough to accept
- that there are little countries which protect themselves in
- a different way. We don't deal with criminal behavior the way
- Americans do. We don't have the concept of "victim of society"
- either in the Chinese, Malay or Tamil language. This concept
- has led to a situation where if you kill your mother and father,
- because you were victims, you are not guilty. If you cut off
- your husband's penis, it's O.K. But it is not O.K. If we allow
- it to be O.K., we'll have chaos. Maybe we are old-fashioned,
- maybe we are reactionary, but the place works.
- </p>
- <p> TIME: What do you think of American society now?
- </p>
- <p> Lee: I don't want to go into polemics, but any society in which
- two innocent Japanese students in Los Angeles can be shot dead
- because someone wanted their car has gone fundamentally wrong.
- Too many guns, and such a distortion of values that two human
- lives can be disposed of for chattel. We take a fundamentally
- different approach. We believe we had to take strong measures
- to make sure that people understand that other people's lives,
- their persons and properties have to be respected.
- </p>
- <p> TIME: If you had some advice to give President Clinton, what
- would it be?
- </p>
- <p> Lee: It is so profound and so deep a problem that he cannot
- change it alone. It requires the consensus of all the thinkers,
- the opinion formulators and the legislators. It will have to
- start in the home. You must have certain values respected. The
- schools can only supplement what the home does. We are worried
- about it ourselves. I don't know what is going to happen in
- 15 or 20 years. My grandchildren are different from my children,
- because they visit me and sing television ditties. They have
- been watching it. And no one is at home except the maid. I don't
- think we should continue that. The government can set the parameters,
- but the thrust must come from the family.
- </p>
- <p> TIME: Can war be avoided on the Korean peninsula?
- </p>
- <p> Lee: To avoid war, you will have to wait until either Kim Il
- Sung is not there or the people around him have concluded that
- this is too dangerous a game to go along with. He is a wild
- card. So you have to keep up the pressure and remain patient.
- </p>
- <p> China cannot be a bystander. She is too close to North Korea.
- You have to get the Chinese on board, and they will not come
- on board without settling a whole host of other issues so that
- they become part of the world management team for peace, stability,
- progress. One day you hammer them for human rights, the second
- day for the export of prison-produced goods. The third day for
- something else, and the fourth day you tell them: We are friends,
- so help me settle this.
- </p>
- <p> You knew you were going to run into trouble with North Korea.
- Who are the people who can help you? The Chinese, definitely.
- They don't want war. They don't want ((South Korea)) to be demolished,
- because they want to use the South to refurbish the whole of
- their northeast. Harness that desire! But instead, you go on
- tormenting China. In ((U.S. Secretary of State)) Warren Christopher's
- final discussion with Jiang Zemin, Jiang said two things that
- were not reported ((by the official Chinese news agency)) to
- the press in China. I thought this very significant. Jiang said,
- "If we don't fight, we cannot become friends." In other words,
- it was positive. I want to be a friend. So we must have these
- quarrels. That this was left out of the reports in China meant
- that he did not want the Chinese people to know he was being
- conciliatory.
- </p>
- </body>
- </article>
- </text>
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